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The Soap Box The End of Thai "Democracy"
The Soap Box The End of Thai "Democracy" | The End of Thai "Democracy" |
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| Written by Frank G. Anderson | |
| Monday, 29 December 2008 | |
 What Thaksin wrought as prime minister couldn’t be called democracy by any stretch
Some observers, however, would use the word ‘changing’ rather than ‘plaguing’ to reflect what they see as the beginning of a grassroots democratic foothold taking place in the country’s social institutions, from its political base to its religious leaders. The generally described divisiveness, indeed, more often rings as legitimate difference of opinion than it does some kind of malignant un-Thainess that traditionalists are attempting to describe events as. From the outside, certainly from a western viewpoint, democracy in Thailand is declared to have been given the boot and an unspoken coalition of royalists, the monarchy itself and the military, an evil coalition being egged on by the PAD, has taken over government with what is repeatedly called a silent coup. There is little corresponding cry about Thaksin’s own silent coup, his takeover of the country’s electorate with populist and impossible-to-fill promises on the one hand, and usurpation of media freedom on the other. Occasionally a foreign press report appears that cites Thaksin’s many wrongs, but it is a small brush stroke on a very large canvass and carries little weight. What most anti-PAD commentators see these days, it seems, is that a purportedly democratically elected government has been thrown out, followed by a second and a third – in order, the Thai Rak Thai, the People’s Power Party, and the last government led by Thaksin’s brother-in-law. But those who have followed Thai elections on a local level outside of Bangkok will have witnessed sheer lopsided support given to political favorites by local officials. In local community meetings, municipal officials often tell voters who to vote for by placing signs up on walls that clearly suggest which party to vote for. It is no secret. Nor is the fact that vote buying is still rampant. Yet, for some reason western and Thai democracy advocates - as they call themselves - cite ‘silent coups’ and declare legitimate governments to be illegitimate. In a recent interview with Thailand’s new prime minister, Abhisit Vejjajiva, CNN’s Dan Rivers attempted to pry out of the premier an admission that his government was less legitimate than that of Thaksin Shinawatra, billionaire leader of the now-dissolved Thai Rak Thai party. But Thailand’s newest premier would have none of it, instead replying along the lines that the people wanted stability and a departure from the old politics, and were getting it with the new Democrat-led coalition. A question for observers to ask, then, is whether the old politics is so corrupt that any facade of democracy is only a facade, or whether any kind of democracy, no matter how corrupt it is, is better than what Thailand now has. To answer this question, we need only look at the paragon of democracy, the United States, to see how its own democracy has taken the world to economic and military disaster. Surely society’s welfare is more important than pretensions of something that was never there to begin with. Another disturbing example of how the democratic process is not necessarily good for the people occurred in Algeria in 1992 when the country’s military annulled parliamentary elections won by hardline Islamic factions. Immediately after the elections the Islamists began a series of social reforms that immediately began to uncover a plot to undo much of the country’s historical secular rights progress. Complaints from women’s groups and others, and alarm at impending dangers gave the military a green light to undo the elections. In Thailand’s case so-called democratic parliamentary elections were undermined when rampant vote-buying and mindless allegiance to Thaksin’s political monolith forced the country’s minority parties to boycott the election. Thaksin went ahead anyhow, claiming a landslide. It was King Bhumibol Adulyadej who finally saved the day by calling the elections non-democratic – which they were since they were won by a single party and artificial spin-offs. But the boycott was not the reason cited by Thai courts for declaring the elections null and void – rather it was placement of voting booths which gave pro-Thaksin officials an easy view of how voters cast their votes. That is, they were being monitored to ensure that they voted for Thaksin as they were either paid to do or had indicated they would do. The continued election instability, louder and louder talk of Thai Rak Thai corruption, abolishment of human rights, state-sponsored terrorism in the form of open murders and secret kidnappings led to the military taking over by ousting Thaksin on 19 September 2006. A resulting new national charter, which this writer witnessed being drafted and commented on at a local level led to what is being denounced as a military-created constitution, strenuously suggesting that such a document would have to be bad in comparison to the 1997 Constitution which Thaksin and cronies had abused time and time again for their own ends. The strength of the Thai Rak Thai party was not so much a strength of democracy being exercised on a local level as it was weakness of lesser political wheeler dealers who saw the light and literally cashed in their own parties to merge with the Thai Rak Thai. Of course then everyone is loyal – they are getting what they want and know that they won’t if they remain separate and in opposition. The former Chart Pattana Party of Nakhonratchasima, northeast Thailand’s Gateway Province, is a case in point. It went ahead despite local electorate opposition and merged with the TRT. Today, as a result of being a TRT party executive found guilty of election fraud, the party’s last leader, Suwat Liptapanlop, is banned from politics for five years. Thailand is a country full of promises and potential, but much more full of illusion and deception, and nearly devoid of transparency. International election observers can stand by and witness something they think resembles democracy, but miss all the local nuances that undermine independent thought and create greed and disparity. These are some of the faults in the Thai political system. They are not faults of the country having experienced a silent coups so much as they are the faults of a society that has not been given the tools that will allow it to create a genuine democratic electoral process. The irony in all of this, as it was in Algeria, is that it took a military takeover to expose the illusion. Or, the illusion should have been exposed.
Frank G. Anderson, American Citizens Abroad Representative, Thailand, also writes a weekly column for UPIAsiaOnline titled Thai Traditions. He founded northeast Thailand’s first local English language newspaper the Korat Post – www.thekoratpost.com. He served as a Peace Corps Thailand volunteer from 1966-67. Comments
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Haven't even had a drink yet and can't spell Happy! Going to be an interesting evening.
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Stuffing in the turkey, pumpkin pies nearly done in the oven, Irish Creme in the fridge, kids grown and with their own responsibilities, my wife and I would like to wish everyone - no matter what side you are on - a prosperous 2009 and good health to you and you family, friends and colleagues.
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 written by Athita , December 31, 2008
Frank,
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Nope, I'm not at home...I'm at a hotel...haa..Anyway, man..you said in a comment that the U.S. democracy was found from a military victory, but what about Thailand? We have 18 coups in sixty years! and all the coup makers claimed each time was "we want democracy, we want to get rid of dirty politicians" but it never happens in this country. The top brass just did for their own interests. Today I read a local paper here and was amused to see "your PM" said after his speech without the Opposition yesterday. Asked what's in his mind to take the Thaksin's policies to drive the economics, Abhisit said "don't call it Popularist, we want to boost Thailand economics" It was Abhisit who blamed Thaksin policies. But now he's doing, sorry, I should say "copying" the same thing Thaksin did. Shame on him...and is this the person you think a good driver? Anyway, happy new year Frank.. report abuse
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Be careful man, defending the algerian military coup of 1992 you are defending a criminal regime (you implicitly admit ir when you say "As to massacres, the Islamicists were more prolific", a sentence full of intellectual dishonesty and inmorality) and drawing parallelisms with the Thai coup can backfire. The implication of such comparition is clear: both are criminals. According to you that is not contradictory with deffending democracy or the which is the most curious political theory I have ever read.
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Refgarding your argument of the military as savior of democracy, your examples to sustain it are so bad chosen and manipulated that it would shameful even to start to refute them. I only know of one historical case in which (some sectors of) an army established a democracy within a country: the Carnation Revolution in Portugal, which was not precisely based on a military victory. Anyway, I have the feeling that, according to your examples and being consistent with your arguments, you think that the US is liberating the people of Iraq and Afghanistan or that what Israel is doing these days killing scores of civilians (in this case we can say that the Israeli State "is more prolific" than Hamas...) in Gaza is "fighting for democracy". Your advocacy of the "defense of a felt need to forcefully undo what voters have done" sounds like fascism to me, specially if it is the army who has to do (otr undo) it . Of course, I am not defending TRT or PPP, they are also fascistoid parties, but the way to combat fascism is using more democracy, not less. In politics, the means are as important as the ends. But I don't think PAD or Democrat Party are fighting for democracy, the welfare of the people or even the country, they just "do things for themselves". I think that what is going on in Thailand is a competition for power for its own sake. report abuse
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written by fdimike , December 31, 2008
In a true democratic society free elections are supposed to reflect the will of the people and hopefully correct what is wrong with the current government. However, when an election is bought and paid for by one of the candidates it serves no one other than those who feel they must "rig" the elction in order to achieve power. Here in Thailand Thaksin and his associates did just that in a well orchestrated move to achieve power and subsequently ill gotten wealth. Once in power he quietly had laws/regulationsagencies changed to favor himself financially along with his supporters. To cover his trail and quiet criticism he had instituted a series of loosely/poorly organized programs to appease the masses while quietly fleecing the country.
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Unfortunately, it is impossible to bring forth changes in government as long as the elections continue to be rigged through vote buying and outright fraud to favor a particular candidate/party. The only solution Thailand really had was the military which as Mr. Anderson states was "more democratic" than the Thaksin governemnt it removed. He is also correct in saying that the United States itself was formed through military action, a fact which seems to escape many people. Fortunately, election fraud in the US as well as most other developed countries doesn't come close to what has happened here in Thailand. If this new government plans to suceed then it must eradicate or at least significantly lessen the mentality that paying someone to vote is a good thing, and that election fraud in one form or another is simply a part of the process. report abuse
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"You say: "Immediately after the elections the Islamists began a series of social reforms that immediately began to uncover a plot to undo much of the country’s historical secular rights progress." That is absolutely false, because in fact the FIS never assumed power: they won the first round elections in December 1991 and the Army annulled the results.."
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The coup was in 1992, but as you say, in 1991 elections were dissolved after the first round. I am looking for reports, but from the time I recall that even after the first round fundamentalists were already going around neighborhoods threatening and promising Sharia rule, etc. This is what I was referring to. As to massacres, the Islamicists were more prolific As to military never being the saviors of democracy, you will have to qualify that statement. It sounds nice but doesn't always apply. The post-Thaksin coup was more democratic than Thaksin was, by the way, whether you want to admit it or not. The US democracy was founded on a military victory, was it not? Of course, everyone cites Hitler's rise to power based on democracy and overthrown with Germany returned to democracy after a military victory. It's more complicated than that, certainly, just as it is here in Thailand with pseudo-apologists for democracy-based dictators citing how bad the military are. This is said not in defense of the military, but in defense of a felt need to forcefully undo what voters have done. Does that translate into every time an election goes bad the military should step in? That's a big jump, and the answer is 'no.' Elections are supposed to right the wrong, not further complicate it. But when you have elections in Thailand that will only turn out one way because the candidate is so loved no one voting for him cares whether he will ruin the nation or not, then there is a national security problem and it's not one to squint at. report abuse
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Before drawing paralelisms you would do well in doing at least some basic research or else rennounce to write about facts you don't know anything about.
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Begining with your calling "Islamic factions" to the Islamic Salvation Front (FIS) party, all your reference to the 1992 coup in Argelia distorts the facts grotequesly. You say: "Immediately after the elections the Islamists began a series of social reforms that immediately began to uncover a plot to undo much of the country’s historical secular rights progress." That is absolutely false, because in fact the FIS never assumed power: they won the first round elections in december 1991 and the Army annuled the results, abolished democracy and started a vicious repression against thousands of supporters of the winning party which resulted in some of the worst human rights abuses witnessed in North Africa, and a brutal civil war between two ruthless factions which caught the defenceless Algerian people in between: the Algerian state and the most radical Islamists of the Armed Islamist Group (GIA). Of course, as it happens most of the times, the men who led the coup in Algeria pretended to act in the name of democracy, to save the country and so on, but the truth is far from that, as demmonstrated by their subsequent brutal repression and state terrorism, both widely documented. The military are never the saviors of democracy (it isactually one of the least democratic of institutions) and giving it the power in times of crisis may seem good in the short term but always has catastrophic consequences in the long term (as shows the tragical history of Burma since 1960). Of course, Thaksin and his proxies are not democrats (democracy is more than being elected), but their adversaries are even less so and their solution is much worse than the problem. report abuse
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It would be wonderful if people actually read what they are commenting about before they comment. I did indicate that the quote, and even included quotation marks!
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Hello? anyone home? report abuse
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written by Barton Fink , December 30, 2008
"If it were not for the ingrained faults of the human species per se, here in Thailand in particular, that rabble rousing crowd would never have gotten to where it is - wherever that might be." Sorry, Frank such tangents of obfuscation don't sound very convincing. Frankly, Frank, I don't even know what this means.
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I agree that Thai political culture remains deeply ingrained with a feudalistic system of patronage detrimental to the interests of most common Thais. Contrary to you, however, I would argue that the PAD is the mouthpiece for the cosseted and entrenched high and mighty, not the disenfranchised masses. As regards Abhisit, he's certainly far more intelligent and articulate than the likes of Samak, but he doesn't seem to have any more of a backbone, does he. You keep knocking Thaksin for his system of cronyism and alleged vote-buying, yet seem to find nothing wrong in Abhisit's readiness to sell out to Thaksin's most corrupt and least principled erstwhile followers (the Newin faction) -- and this after openly supporting the thuggish excesses of the PAD, which with the airport closure inflicted massive damage on the country's economy and cost hundreds of thousands of Thais their livelihoods. Now imagine what you would say if Thaksin's red-shirted followers would pull a stunt like that. report abuse
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written by Athita , December 30, 2008
Frank
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You said ", we now have a PM who is intelligent, caring, knowledgeable, active and sensible." I would say, Oh my god.... Do you really think Abhisit is really what you said? Do you think the PM can run "everything" by himself? Governing the country is like driving a car. Abhisit has no skill of driving. Besides, he thinks he knows how to drive, but in fact he doesn't. You may say, why don't we let him drive? Let me tell you a bit, I have seen him since he entered to politics since he was 27 yrs old. He was good, but "too proud". In Thai we say, red-feet. Look at his wallet, his credit card was stolen by his maid for a year and he didn't realize that. He used to split Thaksin's policies but now he copies all. He used to blame Newin for being crony and dirty politician but now he gives big hug with Newin. Everything he blamed Thaksin in the past but now he just does exactly what he used to accuse Thaksin. And you know, Newin's father was a former "kam-nan" in Buriram who is now the House Chairman. Newin was stripped off when the coup started. But now he changes the side because the military forces him and the elites offers the exchange deal for the Rubble Plants scandal, to lift all charges against him. that is the same elite group who act as the Abhisit's string puller. You don't have to believe me Frank. Buriam is a province where the PAD network implanted, by Mr. Karun Sai-ngam, whose brother-in-law was killed in his own car (his car carried improvised bomb and it exploded) during the Parliament siege Oct. 7th. They lived in Buriram. I have seen their networks spread out the propaganda about Thaksin all over the place. And you said Abhisit is "caring"? You know he recently (about 2 months ago) said "a patronized peasant" referring to those people in Issan. It is radical. report abuse
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This appeared as a comment on the Bangkok Post site:
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"When will the voice of reason prevail here? The FM invites visitors to come back to Thailand and on the tv screens worldwide potential visitors can see more protests, more blockades, more police inability to control a mob. ( Hello? In what other country does he mob regularly win over the police? Who in their right minds would come here to visit? The airports are next!! But we are THAI! What do we know or care about the rest of the world or how stupid we look to other nations. Red shirts, yellow shirts. . .everyone is laughing at us. And now even more of our fellow Thai workers will lose their jobs, their businesses and their livelihoods. I know for a fact that here in Hua Hin, over 100 people have lost their jobs . . .and this is just at two hotels.What a Happy New Year for them! By sheer fantastic good luck, we now have a PM who is intelligent, caring, knowledgeable, active and sensible. How he got there is not the point. The point is that he has the key to PEACE in his hand. Let him use it." I may not fully agree with the idea that it doesn't matter how Abhisit got there, but certainly his character, as much as it is being lacerated by know-it-alls, is far above that of the last three losers who premiered the country. report abuse
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written by fdimike , December 30, 2008
Frank
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Thank you for your wonderfully written enlightening article. Authors such as yourself are a rare commodity in Thailand to say the least. Thaksin subverted nearly every Thai governmental agency into doing his bidding during his time as PM in an effort to become equal with or above the Monarchy. I am not a psychologist but if you follow Thaksin's antics you will quickly learn he fits the mold of a meglomaniac. His popularist policies while sounding good were hollow and nothing more than a sham carefully orchestrated to give him a free hand at doing whatever he pleased as he maneuvered to place himself above the law. The much ballyhooed 30B health plan is a case in point. Severely underfunded, and understaffed it barely functions. However, to a society which has had nothing like it in the past it appears as a godsend. Unfortunately, passing out pills in the ultra chaotic enviornment of a government hospital appears to a casual observer as something best described as a "3 Ring Circus", and hardly qualifies as anything resembling medical care. Thaksin has no respect for the rule of law unless it supports his wheeling and dealing. He has managed to corrupt nearly all levels of Thai government right down to the village during his time in power. A realtive of mine when asked why she sought a position in a local government agency in the NE replied that it provided lots of "perks". When questioned further the "perks" consisted of kickbacks from companies bidding on projects as well as those who "won" the contract. Additionally, she expected to share in the budgetary money coming from the central government in Bangkok. Thailand has always suffered from corruption in one form or another, but Thaksin elevated it to a science. From bid rigging to vote buying (500-1,000B for your vote) Thaksin and his cronies have corrupted Thai society to a degree never witnessed in the past. Unfortunately, he continues to run free, "thumbing his nose" at the Monarchy, the courts, and the people while Thailand continues to suffer from his never ending financial support for his own convoluted brand of "democracy" instilled while in power. The only real solution to Thailand's problems from my perspective is education, education, education, and a distinct turn in government mindset to really support the people with schools which really function to educate, and jobs (especially in the NE) which will help pay the bills, and a medical program which actually provides medical care. Implementing these kinds of reforms will take time, money and a government with the foresight to bring real change for the betterment of all Thai society and not just to "line their own pockets". A good place to start might be the rehabilitation of the severely antiquated train system in the country which has continued to limp along for the past 30+ years with nary any improvement. A good rail system could easily support factories and other industries which are vital to improving the life of the people throughout the country especially in the NE. A modern rail system could also serve to place Thailand in the forefront of supporting trade throughout South and Southeast Asia. The end result will be jobs, jobs, jobs. The education system absolutely must be improved as the current system seems to be be based on an assembly line principle of just churning out copy after copy of poorly educated students incapable of really competeing in todays changing world. My hope is that the newly installed government will be that vehicle to put Thailand back on the right track while really supporting its people as the Monarchy has repeateedly pleaded for them to do. report abuse
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"What you need to explain to us, however, is how an “elitist” dictatorship imposed by a bunch of corrupt, rabble-rousing hypocrites will be an improvement on it."
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Once again I think the point is being overlooked. If it were not for the ingrained faults of the human species per se, here in Thailand in particular, that rabble rousing crowd would never have gotten to where it is - wherever that might be. What we are witnessing appearsto be something far worse than the PAD taking over the government or inspiring the creation of a dictatorship. The fabric of Thai society, perhaps more so the elitist portion of it, is what is taking this country to the dogs. It's a wonder that all hope isn't dead yet, to be negative. The feudalistic attitude of the past is alive and well. As observers we can be frustrated and blame one group or another, but the fault is inherent. That is, my opinion is... report abuse
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written by Barton Fink , December 30, 2008
Frank, you need to be neither less emphatic nor more agreeable; what you do need, though, is a modicum of honesty in your arguments. Your piece is shot full of non sequiturs and figments of imagination (if not outright fabrications). Do you want me to take the time and point them out to you?
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Ok, so you’ve clarified it: you don’t look down on Isaan people. You just don’t think they’re mature and "educated" enough to cast votes and would rather place their collective future in the hands of officials appointed by the PAD and their friends in Bangkok. Yes, you’re right that the democratic system is far from being perfect and is liable to abuse by shrewd politicians. What you need to explain to us, however, is how an “elitist” dictatorship imposed by a bunch of corrupt, rabble-rousing hypocrites will be an improvement on it. report abuse
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I lived on the village level in NE Thailand (Buriram) for two years, and I mean village level, where there was little to eat and few government bureaucrats to admire. Not a lot has changed in many senses.
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As to Q.E.D's calm rational debate proposal, not a bad idea. All these opinions second-guessing not just me but anyone expressing pro-PAD sympathies illustrates the need for it. report abuse
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Thanks Frank.
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Sadly, this Asia sentinel discussion once again provides abundant evidence to support the view that if you never had a modern education you don't know what you are missing e.g. critical analysis and calm, rational debate. To all those poor unfortunates still groping around in semi-darkness because EVERY Thai government for the last 77 years has cheated them out of a modern education - you have my sincere sympathy - you are, after all, 99% of my Thai friends, neighbours and colleagues. Finally, those of you wondering whether this is just another easy claim without substance about Thailand on the internet, I provide the following reference to support my views: Google/Tran Van Doan/Online Books/The Poverty of Ideological Education/ Ch. 4: The Danger of Self-deception in Ideological Education " There is no difference between people who have never read good books and those who never learned to read at all" MARK TWAIN (Thais read an average of only two books per year) report abuse
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written by Athita , December 30, 2008
Frank
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I don't think these readers want to hear something that make them happy but I think they want you to 'do more research' on this topic. For example, your title "the end of Thai democracy', do you think that Thailand does really have democracy? or ever has had? You're in Thailand, and you need to do more research about Thai history, untold history. I'm not sure if you're currently living in "Si-kew" district as I remember I used to read your article once. If so, you're better travel beyond the Korat metro and see how real "Issan" people think. Another institute that oppose Thaksin is "Rajchabhat University" where Mr. Somkiart Pongpaiboon, one of the PAD leader, was the lecturer there. They have a good network there acting as if they are a good NGO. But you know what, those "good NGOs" you probably have encountered, they're all FAKE. Anyway, please, if you want the fact & the truth, believe me one thing, don't read "The Nation" newspaper because it's a bias media. Why? Because the founders always blame Thaksin for anything bad and they are ready to report something that it says "exclusive". report abuse
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Need I be less emphatic, then? Or more agreeable? Apparently. Like I tried to say, having an opinion but not expressing it does not mean you don't have one.
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In a sense we are all armchair warriors here and pundits. Angry at conjecture? Why? does it conflict with your own neatly organized perceptions? Not mentioning the Queen and CP and others does not mean they are out of the picture or involved. My primary theme is that because of superficial appearances many people now hate or dislike the PAD without being able to look beyond (and dkon't misquote me here) the PAD to what may lie ahead for Thailand. Even the K,Q, CP and PCP are in a sense prisoners of tradition and Thai culture. I have read all comments on the article, and only one seems to get the point. Comment on sans analysis if you will, if that's what makes you happy. As to one writer insinuating that I look down on Isaan people, again....you are looking through a newspaper tube. Accusing me of being right all the time yet going on as if you are need little comment. As Dr. Covey has attempted to tell others, seek first to understand and then be understood. report abuse
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written by Anthony Prutton , December 29, 2008
My theory of the Royal backing of Democrat party is because they are loyal to the House of Chakri. Because they know that the King will eventually pass away in the next few year. They do not want Thaksin in power, since they sense that Thaksin is so popular and the Crown Prince is not. So, they want to make sure that " their people" are in control of power when " the time" comes.
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I think the Queen may unintentionally fulfill the phophecy given by the Somdej Buddhajarn To hundreds of years ago that the house of Chakri would have only 10 kings! What the Queen did is a rude awakening for a lot of Thais who used to loyal the monarchy. Now, they are still loyal to the King ( but not the institution). Once the King passes away, I doubt that the current Crown Prince will be able to earn approval of Thai people. Furthermore, his current wife background makes people even more disgust about this couple. I doubt that they will survive any future political turmoil. report abuse
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written by Barton Fink , December 29, 2008
Frank, you blow hot and cold, hitting out at everyone in sight. Western commentators, Thai pro-democracy advocates, Dan Rivers at CNN – none of them get it, except you. To the rest of us it may have seemed that the PAD leadership is nothing but a self-serving bunch of reactionaries with a shadowy network of powerful backers, whereas to you they’re knights in shining armor who have ridden to the rescue of Thai “society’s welfare.” You mean chaps like Sonthi Limthongkul, that bigoted, preening Mussolini wannabe?
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You make scurrilous accusations without bothering to back them up with any shred of evidence. Here you are, basically regurgitating all the arguments of the PAD or The Nation newspaper to the point where you come straight out and declare that the democratic process is not suitable for benighted souls like the ignoramuses in Isaan. You bemoan Thaksin’s “takeover of the country’s electorate” who showed “mindless allegiance to Thaksin’s political monolith.” Right; meanwhile, you and PAD demagogues are philosopher kings with towering intellects. It’s curious that apparently you live in Isaan yet regard the people there as dim-witted buffoons. Yes, Frank, you’re right: Thaksin may well have embarked on his “populist” policies for self-serving reasons. What does that matter? His motivations counted less than the actual results of his populism in helping hitherto ignored Isaan people with policy initiatives. Few of us have illusions about Thaksin, but don’t try to force-feed us the drivel that his powerful enemies in the army, the PAD and the upper echelons of the Thai caste system are humble servants of the popular will tirelessly working for the benefit of all and sundry in the Kingdom. report abuse
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written by Paris , December 29, 2008
Dear Frank, please stop to despise Issan people. And tell your PAD friends that what citizens need to vote is NOT diploma but good will. An the good will is NOT inside the PAD. Issan people probably cannot write English like you (thanks God) but they are entitled to have their own ideas. Sorry but they are as human beings as Sondhi or you.
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written by Paris , December 29, 2008
Your article is very poor alike all the PAD propaganda despite your pompous style.
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Thaksin is a despot and a thief. Right! Anyway this is not the dispute today. We do not discuss about the the past but about the future. And with the fascist axis (some in the palace, some in the army, all the PAD, and some in the Democrats), the war with Cambodia and troubles with all the countries of the world are unavoidable. Check the FM records. Check Abhisit records. Check the self-sufficient policy of "who-you-know". Any man of good will has to fight against this gvt and this has nothing to do with Thaksin. report abuse
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written by Toni , December 29, 2008
Frank,
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You dont know anything about Queen's involvement. Are you serious? Do you think PAD could shut down the airport without backing by the Queen? Do you think the court's decision regarding TRT, PPP,and Democrat party would come out the way as they were without the Queen's intervention? Do your homework. report abuse
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written by Athita , December 29, 2008
Frank,
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About the freedom of speech, I quite agree with you that during Thaksin's era, the press was under controlled. But, to be fair, it happens like this for ALL admin. But believe me one thing, Thaksin government is the only admin. that the Thai media attack more than any admins. in Thai history. During Sarit's era, a journalist could get killed for reporting something about military government. You should check that recently, the army was sent to one of community radio station in Bangkok (you can check) and threatening them to not broadcast anything. This is not included the regional radio stations. It's a silent coup. Frank The SUT academics, some of them used to serve as army, airforce, or navy. And some of them are spearhead for the PAD academic "branch" that have been brain-washing students. report abuse
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written by Athita , December 29, 2008
Thank you Frank for replying.
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You don't know how the Q involved? C'mon Frank, you're a journalist. Dig deeper then you will see. Okay, let me give you some hint. 1). During Thaksin era, Thaksin supported the Q's project, the Silpasip. He helped the Q by providing the market to launch local products to world market known as OTOP. The Q publicly praised him in front of the audience in her birthday. She invited him to her North Eastern Palace, the Bubhan Palace. He even danced in front of her. 2). In the tsunami disaster, it was Thaksin helped the prince and princess to find her missing son. 3). During the out-door cabinet meeting in Chiangmai, the Q. invited the cabinet for lunch at her Bubhing Palace. 4). It turned out when Prem, who the Q holds as a big brother turned against Thaksin. He kept whispering to her that Thaksin was dishonest to the royal. 5). And, it was Surakiart Satienthai, former minister of foreign affair in Thaksin cabinet, who stabbed Thaksin's back. Surakiart is married with a daughter of the Q's brother. 6). And, Sondhi Limthongkul used her and others elites, esp. old ladies to "whisper" to the Q. In Thai we say, poisonous words. The rest of story, you can dig by yourself. I guess. report abuse
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I can't fault academics, whether from SUT here in Korat or form NIDA in Bangkok, from going anti-Thaksin.
Votes: +1
As to coup leaders getting rich, that's a nasty Thai practice no matter who takes over. Lack of transparency prevents proof from becoming evident. As as to where have I been, well, apparently in a different place than some of the rest. This idea that the military had been more severe than Thaksin in media control is misguided at best. That was one of the oxymoron natures of the coup, that under it there was more media freedom than under Thaksin. report abuse
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Not quite sure why you seem to ignore the fact that TRT and PPP are synonymous, as well as well as the latest TRT offshoot.
Votes: +0
As well, what Queen involvement? Have you not lowered the notch? Thaksin was not overthrown just by any single person, save, perhaps, himself through his own misbehavior. report abuse
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written by toni , December 29, 2008
Frank,
Votes: +1
You miss one huge event! The last election in Thailand was overseen by the military government and yet the PPP (known to be Thaksin's party) won! The PPP did not have municipal officials to tell voters who to vote for (the military government had moved significant numbers of government officials to help the Democrat party. Yet, PPP still won handsomely. I will be more interested in the topic " Why does Queen Sirikit get involved deeply in overthrowing Thaksin?" report abuse
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written by Athita , December 29, 2008
...and Frank, if you're saying that Thaksin government is corrupt and the coup exposed that, why don't you talk about the unusual rich of the coup leaders?
Votes: +4
1). After the coup, the military got budget raised from 60,000 million Baht to 120,000 Baht 2). The army canceled Thaksin's policy for g2g trade-deal, in which is called Barter Trade. The army installed government used cash to buy tanks 3). The Airforce got new jet-fighters 4). The coup leader installed their military personnel to become Chairman of State-Enterprise like telephone (TOT), airport authority (AOT), and so on. 5). Those military personnel did nothing during in the power but got paid a big salary. Abuse of power? Military-installed PM, Gen. Surayudh was accused of owing a prime-land at a mountain in Reserved Forest (close to Korat), and he failed to explain how he got that. During the CNS regime, many websites and community radio were shut down as they opposed against CNS. Let me ask you, Frank...where have you been? report abuse
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written by Athita , December 29, 2008
You know what, I don't like to link Frank and someone in Korat together. Just to inform you guys, the readers of this article that in Korat, there's a university that pro-PAD, the Suranaree University of Technology. What's the connection? The founder of the university is Dr. Wijit Srisa-arn, (who became the Education Minister during the military-appointed government after 2006 coup. During Thaksin's era, many of lecturers there turned against Thaksin and convinced their students to oppose Thaksin's policies.
Votes: +0
Korat is one of the biggest city in Thailand and under controlled by former Thai Rak Thai, Mr. Suwat Lipatapulop (whose wife is now one of Abhisit's cabinet member). During Thaksin's in power, one of his policy is "to get tough on visa applying". Many foreigners had complained about such a tough policy (due to the terrorist threat). I'm not saying here that Frank is one of them. But I want Frank to look around the real democracy of Thailand, has it ever existed? The answer is no. Frank, if you look at Pak-Chong town, or Chalerm-Prakiat district which both are in Korat province, you will see the difference. You sound like supporting the coup! report abuse
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written by Lum , December 29, 2008
Thank you for throwing some more light on the situation in Thailand.
Votes: +2
You are one of the few foreign journalists who actually know what they are talking about, since you have lived in the North East and seen first hand the problems that are endemic to Thailand. Thaksin knew this and greatly exploited this for his own profit. Too many foreign journalists think democracy is just about elections. They don't realise that the freedoms they enjoy are not due to elections, but due to fair law enforcement and legal due process. Thaksin greatly reduced any semblance of democracy as soon as elections put him and his nominees in office. report abuse
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At this moment i'm about to drink with Frank. Hey Frank, try Thai whiskey or Lao Khao and you will see heaven. If I were near you I would take you to a rice field and enjoy the night..haa
Happy New Year All.